Fully automating Jenkins is a *pain*.

I'm frankly wondering if, after I wrap my current project up, I should build a next-gen CI system designed for modern automation.

@pnathan there's a lot happening in this space right now - at WMF we just decided after a lot of research that we're probably going to use argo, but also have a look at tekton, i'd say?

@brennen Tekton looks promising, but the sophistication level that it needs is way beyond where it will be for a year or two.

I have spent probably a month automating a 'cattle' jenkins system with proper operationalizing, credentials, etc. It's a disaster show. Nothing is really being driven to where it needs to be for cloud-native work, and the improvements are coming absurdly slowly.

@pnathan yeah, jenkins isn't the worst thing i deal with on a regular basis, but that's only because the competition is pretty stunning.

@brennen I can imagine far worse.

but, for Jenkins' status as *the* FOSS CICD system, it moves at a glacial pace and is technically very very difficult.

@brennen also, question - what are the other major players in the space right now? the 2 you mentioned, I can think of GoCD, CodeFresh, Gitlab, Github, AzureDevOps - what else?

@brennen yeah sourcehut is new. I think it's still a 1-man shop, which is.... iffy for my needs both at the dayjob and in general. I'd rather be the 1 man for a 1 man shop. :)

@pnathan it's worth a look. complex and in its current iteration it leans on ansible, which is not something i bear any affection, but i think it's a remarkably capable system with a lot of careful thought put into its design.

(we currently use an older, and significantly different, major release of zuul with a whole lot of jenkins in the mix.)

looking at - we also checked out spinnaker & concourse, for whatever that's worth.

@brennen @pnathan Yeah, fingers crossed, although every alternative seems to be in a perpetually unfinished state; landed on Jenkins at my own work after searching far and wide for anything else, but everything else was lacking or worse in one way or another.

Frankly I wish Phabricator (which I'm using for many things at work and personally already) would develop Harbormaster into a full and more extensible CI system, but they don't seem to have a high priority on that.

@keithzg @brennen Jenkins *satisfices*. And it's crazy extensible.

I have a thread in the back of my head how this can all be solved with Common Lisp macros. :)

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